Greensboro Planning Might Want To Make it More Difficult on the Protest Petition Process

There was a very interesting post on the UNC School of Government list serve from the Greensboro Planning Manager Rawls Howard.

More comments below the fold.

If you want to see the post click on the title above.

Here is what Rawls Howard had to say;

Does anyone require that the signatures for your protest petitions be notarized to be counted as official?

The State statutes are silent to this, but I wanted to check if this is something that is allowed or is done through local ordinances in your municipality or county.

Thanks.

In Public Service,

Rawls Howard, AICP, CZO
Planning Manager
City of Greensboro
300 West Washington St
PO Box 3136
Greensboro, NC 27402-3136
T) 336-373-2748
F) 336-412-6315
E) rawls.howard@greensboro-nc.gov

________________________________________________________

It seems that the Greensboro Planning Department is trying to make this process as difficult as possible. Just think ,Rawls Howard is trying to find out about having a notary be a part of the process, unbelievable. You do not need to have a notary to make a valid protest petition. If there is any municipality who does this I am not aware of it. Raleigh, High Point or Charlotte doesn't make you have a notary on the Protest Petition forms. All you need to do is provide a valid form where the citizens of Greensboro with name , address, and telephone . That is all you need .

If the City of Greensboro Planning Department wants to know what other cities are doing please click on this post CLICKHERE

The Big Guns Are Coming Out , Roy Carroll Speaks Out On Protest Petition

Greensboro News & Record's Amanda Lehmert has a new article in the online edition of paper titled "Council to Discuss Protest Petitions".CLICKHERE

Here are a few quotes that are gems to hear.

Roy Carroll , developer and remember Greensboro City Council member Robbie Perkins is his leasing agent at his Center Pointe development CLICKHERE for that report, Quote "Protest petitions can and are used to try to extort all kinds of things out of property owners. Not just developers, but property owners. It is something I have seen firsthand the negative effects of, Carroll said."

Hey Roy Carroll there are also positive effects on having the ability to use Protest Petitions just ask the neighborhood in High Point called Sutton Place.Nice to say that neighbors are extorting you.

Greensboro City Council Member Robbie Perkins had this to say"If we are going to have a protest petition law, it needs to be based on realistic parameters. I don't think 5 percent is a realistic parameter to cause a super majority vote," Perkins said.

Hey Robbie Perkins then why don't you become a state representative and change the law. This is a state statute and to deny the citizens this right is unfair.

Greensboro City Council Member Dr. Trudy Wade had this to say,"Councilwoman Trudy Wade said she would be interested in getting together a committee that can write legislation everyone can agree on."

Dr. Wade , there is no compromise on this issue it is a North Carolina General Statute 160a-385 and 386, the 5% is the law that every city in this state abides by. If you want to change the law then support Greensboro having this right then lobby the whole state but beware the League of Municipalities tried for 5 years straight to no avail as David Owens from UNC School of Government has said before.

Greensboro City Council Member Zack Matheny had this to say"We need to review our zoning process. Is it broken? Do we need to fix it? Are the neighbors winning?" Councilman Zack Matheny said. "I will tell you, in my cases, the neighbors are winning."

Zack Matheny thinks that the neighbors are winning, oh really. Please go ask the neighbors off of new garden road who had to come up in front of council to have the lawyer continue the wedding planner at the last minute then right before it goes to council he withdraws the case. If you saw how that process worked and how the neighbors who were dead set against the wedding planner if they would have even hinted at a Protest Petition then the ridiculous rezoning case would have never got off ground and the neighbors would not have had to come to council twice to be turned away with barely any notification.

You can also add Lawndale Avenue to Westridge Road to Rehobeth Church Road to Elm Street & Cornwallis to Horse Pen Creek Road to Garden Lake Drive to Guilford Hills area with Rices Toyota to Pisgah Church Road to Hill Top Road. There are plenty of cases where the neighborhoods are not getting a fair shake and to deny them this right to a Protest Petition is not right.

It seems like the TREBIC contingency will be out in full force with Roy Carroll saying that neighbors are extorting him. That will be a great argument to hear from Roy Carroll on wednesday if he speaks on this issue.


Let me leave you with a quote from Donna Newton at the Greensboro Neighborhood Congress"We should not be the only city in the state of North Carolina that doesn't have this right," said Donna Newton, liaison to the Neighborhood Congress." That is correct and we will see what happens on Wednesday.

"Lawmakers May Say Yes Even If Council Says No" Post from Allen Johnson at Greensboro News and Record

Greensboro News and Record Editorial Page Editor Allen Johnson has a new post titled

"Lawmakers May Say Yes Even If Council Says No"

on his blog called "Thinking Out Loud" CLICKHERE , or click on the title above

as stated before in a post yesterday North Carolina State Representative Maggie Jeffus was in attendence at the luncheon with the professor from UNC School of Government David Owens speaking about Protest Petitions in the State of North Carolina.

Allen Johnson writes this in his post
"When asked if the county legislative delegation would move forward with a bill to re-establish the right to use protest petitions to Greensboro -- even if the council opposed it -- Jeffus said: "I think probably we will. I'm almost certain a bill will be filed."
Jeffus added: "You pick your battles and I think this is something people want."

This is great to hear from our State Representative Maggis Jeffus. You can also add State Rep. Pricey Harrison who said she will introduce a bill with or without the support of the Greensboro City Council.

Let's see where the Greensboro City Council stands on this issue are they going to be for the citizens to get this restored or are they going to be for the special interest group called TREBIC. Take your pick but as we heard yesterday Mayor Yvonne Johnson is again running for mayor of Greensboro and today Amanda Lahmert stated that Zack Matheny is also going to run again. It will be a interesting night to say the least.

The reinstatement of Protest Petitions has to come from the state delegation and if you as citizens of Greensboro want this right restored to you it is beneficial that you e-mail your state representatives which are located on the left hand side of blog.

A Little Urbanity: Still More About Protest Petitions Thanks Again David Wharton Part Deux

A Little Urbanity: Still More About Protest Petitions

David Wharton has a new article over at his blog called A Little Urbanity CLICKHERE in regards to bringing back Protest Petitions to Greensboro.

On January 13, 2009 the League of Women Voters of the Triad held a luncheon with the speaker being David Owens from the UNC School of Government his picture is above from the luncheon.

David Owens spoke for about an hour on the subject of Protest Petitions in North Carolina. Thanks to David Wharton on his blog because there are scanned documents that are a must read on Protest Petitions provided by David Owens.

It was great to see Greensboro City Council member Goldie Wells in attendence at the luncheon. But an invitation was given to all the Greensboro City Council members to listen to an expert in the field on zoning laws in North Carolina especially in regards to Protest Petition .Since the whole Greensboro City Council members didn't show up for the luncheon except for Goldie Wells it is in their best interest to read the documents over at A Little Urbanity click on the title above.

It is great to get more post on this issue and to see what David Wharton has to say is correct.

There was one person in attendence who I had the opportunity to talk to after the meeting and it happen to be former Greensboro Mayor Carolyn Allen , here his her bio "Mayor Allen, whose public service extends back over more than 30 years, will mark 10 years of service on the Greensboro City Council in December of 1999 having first been elected as an at-large member and Mayor Pro Tem in 1989 and again in 1991. In 1993, she was elected Mayor of Greensboro, the first woman to hold this office. She was subsequently re-elected twice (in 1995 and 1997)." (source Greensboro press release from 1999). While talking with Carolyn Allen after the luncheon the question was asked are you for bringing back Protest Petitions to the citizens of Greensboro. The ex mayor said YES and I said can I quote you on that and she said YES. It is great to hear a ex city council member and ex mayor come out in support of Protest Petitions for the citizens of Greensboro let's see on Janiary 21, 2009 where the current members stand.

The time is now to let your Greensboro City Council Members know how you feel

about bringing back Protest Petitions to Greensboro. All you need to say is

BRING BACK PROTEST PETITIONS TO GREENSBORO

Here are some ways to get in touch with Greensboro City Council members

1. A presonal visit (this is perhaps the most effective way)

2. E-mail the Greensboro City Council members ( to the left hand side of blog is a link to do just that or below is their e-mail)

3. Call them using phone numbers provided(taken from city web page)

4. Write them at: p.o. box 3136, Greensboro N.C. 27402-3136

5. send fax (fax numbers were taken from city web page)

Council Members

YVONNE J. JOHNSON (Mayor)
P.O. Box 3136, Greensboro, NC 274023136.............................373-2396
(home) 375-5173
(City business) 253-7012
FAX...................................574-4003

EMAIL: yvonne.johnson@greensboro-nc.gov

SANDRA ANDERSON GROAT (Mayor Pro Tem) (At Large)
412 Arlington Street, Greensboro, NC 27406 (business).......................................................... 273-9066
(home)........................................................................... 282-9047
FAX...................................273-5451

EMAIL: sandra.anderson@greensboro-nc.gov

ROBBIE PERKINS (At Large)
1612 St. Andrews Rd., Greensboro, NC 27408
1001 W. Friendly Ave., Suite 601, Greensboro, NC 27401 (business)..................................... 358-3219
FAX...................................373-0260

EMAIL: robbie.perkins@greensboro-nc.gov

Mary C. RAKESTRAW (At Large)
P.O. Box 3136, Greensboro, NC 27402-3136
101 East Avondale Drive, Greensboro, NC 27403
(home).....................................852-8639
(voice mail)............................373-2987
FAX...................................574-4003

EMAIL: mary.rakestraw@greensboro-nc.gov

T. DIANNE BELLAMY-SMALL (District 1)
P.O. Box 3136, Greensboro, NC 27402-3136
3211 Delmonte Drive, Greensboro, NC 27406
(voice mail)................................ 373-2286
FAX...................................574-4003

EMAIL: bellamy.small@greensboro-nc.gov

GOLDIE WELLS (District 2)
4203 Belfield Drive, Greensboro, NC 27405-6309 (home)....................................................... 621-0634
Voice Mailbox................................................. 373-2391
FAX...................................375-1675

EMAIL: goldie.wells@greensboro-nc.gov

ZACK MATHENY (District 3)
P.O. Box 3136, Greensboro, NC 27402-3136
300 N. Greene Street, Suite 1000, Greensboro, NC 27401 (business).....................................232-1900
(voice mail).......................................

373-4638
FAX...................................574-4003

EMAIL: zack.matheny@greensboro-nc.gov

MIKE BARBER (District 4)
807 Greenwood Drive, Greensboro, NC 27410 (home)............................................................ 852-0195
1101 W. Market Street, Greensboro, NC 27403 (business)....................................................... 273-4884
FAX....................................273-4874

EMAIL: mike.barber@greensboro-nc.gov

TRUDY WADE(District 5)
P.O. Box 3136, Greensboro, NC 27402-3136
1 Creswell Court, Greensboro, NC 27407 (home).................................................................... 323-6480
703 W. Main St., Jamestown, NC (business)............................................................................. 454-3171
(voice mail)........................................................................ 373-3688
FAX....................................454-2865

EMAIL: trudy.wade@greensboro-nc.gov

Lunch With The League January 13, 2009 Topic: PROTEST PETITION

Lunch with the League

League of Women Voters of the Piedmont Triad CLICKHERE
Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 12:00 noon
Holy Trinity Episcopal Church, Haywood Duke Meeting Room
605 N. Greene St. near downtown Greensboro Mapquest CLICKHERE

“The Protest Petition”

Speaker: Dr. David Owens, Gladys H. Coates Professor, CLICKHERE
Public Law and Government
School of Government, UNC-CH

Dr. David Owens, an expert on land use topics, the scope of local government authority, planning legislation and urban growth management, has been a member of the Institute of Government since 1989. Prior to that, he was an attorney and senior planner for the Planning Office. He received a graduate planning degree and law degree from UNC-CH.

About the Protest Petition:
This is a North Carolina general statute (160A-385(a) that gives residents of a neighborhood an opportunity to protest rezoning and land use requests. All major NC cities except Greensboro have the protest petition.

References:
Greensboro News & Record editorials,
March 2 2008: “The right to protest,” CLICKHERE
May 14 1008: “Get on board protest petitions.” CLICKHERE

Yes Weekly Jordan Green analysis,
February 12 2008:
“A rezoning chronicle: “How Greensboro lost the protest petition;” CLICKHERE
Editorial June 30 2008: “TREBIC vs. Protest Petition.” CLICKHERE

The January 13, 2009 program is free. Everyone is invited. Reservations are necessary if you’d like to have lunch at a cost of $8.00 per person. Make reservations by Friday, January 9 and please arrive at noon on the 13th if you plan to have lunch. Reservations: http://us.mc387.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=tkwhitacre@triad.rr.com or call Trudy Whitacre at 336-643-2131.

Don’t miss this vital opportunity for greater understanding of the need for transparency and citizen participation in decision-making!

Greensboro City Council 2008 Legislative Agenda makes a case for Protest Petitions

On May 7, 2008 at the Greensboro City Council meeting item #42 which was a resolution to approve additional items for the 2008 Legislative Program and requesting support thereof by the Guilford delegation. If you want to watch the video click here , it all starts around the 1:16 point in video.

Before the agenda could get started Trudy Wade made a motion to add this to the agenda,"That the City Charter be amended to provide that the Greensboro City Attorney be appointed by and serve at the pleasure of the city council to be it's legal advisor", it was seconded by City Council member Mike Barber.

As you can see that the silence from the City of Greensboro to even bring up Protest Petitions is evident with this motion. Bringing back Protest Petitions to the citizens of Greensboro has been in the spotlight since February plenty of time for the City Council to actually bring this up as a motion or a resolution or an agenda item whatever it takes.

Allen Johnson from the Greensboro News and Record had this to say in his Op-Ed piece on May 25, 2008.

When the local legislators convened to take up the matter on May 15, it still hadn’t heard from the council. As it turns out, the council didn’t say yes or no to the idea. In fact, it didn’t say anything. It just sucked the life out of the bill — at least for now — by sealing its collective lips. “We should have had an open dialogue on the dais about this,” Councilwoman Sandra Anderson Groat said last week.

Please let us know when that open dialogue will occur?

Below is a piece on Ed cone's blog click here
Yvonne Johnson responds to my email query on protest petitions: "I'm still studying this and weighing the pros and cons." She says she's conferring with a lot of people, including "communities" and TREBIC, about Pricey Harrison's bill.
Mar 14, 2008 at 03:36 PM

Is the Mayor still weighing the pros and cons?The silence is deafening

At around the 1:18 mark on video City Council member Mike Barber had this to say, "Well over 100 jurisdictions in North Carolina have their attorney report to the elected body that is the absolute rule 99% only 2 in North Carolina Greensboro and High Point don't.There is a story behind Greensboro changing."

The next quote by City Council member Mike Barber is priceless to the argument for bringing back Protest Petitions to Greensboro. Here is what was said, "Coming in line and being consistent with virtually every jurisdiction in the state of North Carolina".That is what we have been saying since the beginning Mr. Barber. This exemption for Greensboro should have never taken place 37 years ago and now it is time to be consistent with the rest of the state as Mr. Barber has stated.

Now it is time to show you what City Council member Zack Matheny had to say about this, "I have studied this significantly and called David Owens and David Lawrence from the UNC School of Government, their experience through their research to quote them made it worthwhile.Research from David Owens and David Lawrence which I know we depend a lot on in numerous cases. They are considered experts in their field."

Since we now know that David Owens is a expert in his field of work let's see what Mr. Owens has to say about Protest Petitions in the State of North Carolina.

Key Legal Issues
Protest Petitions
David W. Owens, Professor, Institute of Government, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, CB# 3330, Knapp Building, UNC-CH, Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3330March 2006

The provision in North Carolina zoning law for a protest petition, G.S. 160A-385(a), is mandatory for cities. The protest petition is available in all cities, whether or not an individual zoning ordinance includes provisions for it. A city may not reduce the required supermajority vote required by local ordinance. Eldridge v. Mangum, 216 N.C. 532, 5 S.E.2d 721 (1939).

As you can see it is mandatory for cities and this exemption for Greensboro should have never taken place. There are many questions to be answered as to why this exemption happened in the first place.I hope that the Greensboro City Council can also see that David Owens is a expert in his field and states that Protest Petitions are mandatory for all cities in North Carolina.

City Council member Sandra Anderson Groat has talked with David Lawrence in the past at length. Maybe she can also talk with David Owens about Protest Petitions.

City Council member Trudy Wade says this,"We are responsible to the citizens". Let's see if you are going to abide by that and be with the citizens or will you take the side of the special interest which in this case is TREBIC.

City Council member Mike Barber at the end of the discussion on the Legislative agenda for short session 2008 had this to say," Let's stick to the facts we can look up, our North Carolina Legislature believes in the ability of local governments to manage our 100 counties up to 8 people. North Carolina General Statutes allow for that, the Legislature believes this is the right way to do it all other municipalities besides High Point around the state are doing this. We are not taking on more responsibility , we are accepting the responsibility we should have never given up."

As you can see from City Council member Mike Barber , there are North Carolina General Statutes that the states have and every other municipality abides by them like in regards to Protest Petitions. He also states that we should never have given away that right. The argument for bringing back Protest Petitions to Greensboro is that this North Carolina General Statute should also have never been given away either.

Since we know now that these 2 issues being city attorney office under the city council and Protest Petitions for the citizens of Greensboro are too controversial in the short session.We also know that the Greensboro City Council passed the city attorney issue with a 5-4 decision at the May 7th meeting.

It is time to see where the City of Greensboro stands on the issue of bringing back Protest Petitions to Greensboro.

UNC School of Government Prof. Owens web page on Protest Petitions

I wanted to make everyone aware of a great article and read the first sentence when it say the North Carolina General statute is mandatory for all cities and that means Greensboro, but we will need to get the state legislature to pass a bill making Greensboro comply. Here is the link
http://www.sog.unc.edu/organizations/planning/keyissues/protst.htm